Nov. 30, 2021

How to Podcast in a Regulated Industry


Did you have the idea for a podcast but quickly realized it would be too hard because of regulations?­­­

Regulations in an industry like healthcare and finance offer a challenge for podcasting, but as we dive into this episode, the solution is easier than you think.

 And we take a look at the exciting announcement out of Captivate.fm with a new dynamic advertising insertion tool that is a game-changer for any indie podcast.  

Topics:

·     Podcast News: Captivate Releases AMIE (Audio Mastering and Integration Engine)

·     Deep Dive: How to Podcast in a Regulated Industry

·     Q and A: How to decide if an entertainment podcast is the right format?

Thanks for Listening!

Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And feel free to drop us a line at mathew@thepodcastconsultant.com.

Follow Mathew on Social Media to stay up to date on Podcast Me Anything - Facebook | Twitter | Instagram | LinkedIn

Transcript

Speaker 2 (00:02)
Hello and welcome podcast me anything and asking anything for all things podcasting. I'm your host, Ben Killoy, and I am joined here in the studio with Matthew passing the podcast control. Matthew and I wanted to move the conversations beyond the podcasting, one on one topic, move into the intermediate to advanced podcasting strategy to reach your goals. To interact with the show, submit your questions to be answered live, book a podcast, Mathew, or find the notes from today's show head on over to podcastnathing. Com. I don't know about you, but anytime where you're not hosting the podcast, it's always fun.

Speaker 2 (00:35)
So this has to be a little bit fun for you because you just get to answer questions versus, like worrying about leading into different questions or worrying about the next question. So I always love being the guest on podcast. Here. I'm the host, but here, in your case, you kind of get to show up and just be the guest for it as well.

Speaker 1 (00:48)
No, it's interesting. It's funny you say that. Yeah, because when I'm hosting a podcast, there is kind of a very different nervous energy. Not that I'm necessarily nervous doing it, but there's more on your mind. There's more that you're thinking about. There's more that you kind of have to balance, right? You're like holding up spinning plates, whereas when you're a guest, you just sit back, smile and try not to sound stupid.

Speaker 2 (01:11)
Anytime I'm hosting and I get done, I'm always like, I'm out. I walk away from my computer and I'm like, I'm going to take a break doing something. I'll usually play with the kids because you need that off moment because of how much energy it took to keep the whole essence of the interview going along with it.

Speaker 1 (01:25)
Yeah, it could be exhausting, even though you're probably only talking for 10% of the entire content. Piece of it. Your mind is just doing so many different things at once that it's definitely a tiring experience.

Speaker 2 (01:37)
So here on podcast meeting, we've had a few interviews related to dynamic insertion, and for the audience out there, dynamic insertion is essentially baking in ad reads into a podcast automatically dynamically, like on the fly after the fact pulling it, re, adding it in. But the technology was never really fully integrated into system. A lot of it required rerouting your RSS feed to different third party providers. Your statistics were going to be a big, huge hit to that. You couldn't track all your statistics in the same spot.

Speaker 2 (02:08)
But the news topic that we want to talk about today is that captivate has launched Amy. Amy is a dynamic ad searching tool that's built right into the RSS feed. The stuff on this really looks exciting. I'm really excited to dive into this on my own podcast. And what I want you to talk about Matthew is why is Amy going to be so important for people hosting a captivate? And even from a differentiator because this isn't even something that the big dogs like Lipson are even close to being able to do on their little ad service as well.

Speaker 1 (02:36)
Well, actually, the truth is, there are a lot of hosting services that offer dynamic content insertion, but for many of them, it requires being part of their pro plans, their pro experiences blueberry. I think it's had this for a little over a year now. Lipson has had a version of this, although most people don't talk about it because they don't use the Lipson pro service. Megafone was the big first one to roll out dynamic insertion for podcast. The big thing for them is you make dynamic insertable spots available and then they'll fill them for you and help you make money, which clearly is a benefit to podcasters who don't want to do their own sales.

Speaker 1 (03:16)
I think Red Circle has had dynamic insertion, so it's not that it hasn't been out there, but it hasn't been out there in a way that I think is approachable for most people. It has always felt like something that you always had to pay a lot more for, or it took a lot of energy and know how to kind of integrate it into what you were doing. And when I watched the demo that Mark and his team put out with Amy and their dynamic insertion tools, what I found and what has always been true of this platform for me is that everything was just so intuitive, clean and easy to use.

Speaker 1 (03:54)
And again, the thing that captivate always touts about itself, and they live up to the promises they make these tools available to the Indian, the small podcaster. So every captivate paying user has access to all these tools, all this technology, and from what I can tell from the demo, and we haven't had a real chance to really start playing with it yet, but it is pretty easy to use. And actually they came up with a couple of things that were very unique, one being this idea of the ad painter, where instead of just placing a marker or signifying a spot in your content, whether it be a pre roll before you hear anything or at the end, after everything is done, or you pick a spot, and literally it's going to break up your content.

Speaker 1 (04:40)
You can actually highlight a piece of content in your podcast and essentially replace that content. I have to see how it works because it sounds too good to be true. But just having that access means that there are podcasts out there who have been doing this for a long time who have had baked in ad reads because they didn't have access to platforms like this who can now go back and monetize and dynamically change their content using this platform. So I think what Captivate wants to do and what they always claim to do is what they've done here as well as they are bringing big time podcasting tools to the independent and small podcast creators.

Speaker 2 (05:27)
There's a sub kind of topic below all of this. Where me as an indie podcaster as well. I have over 235 episodes out there, but as I get approached by different sponsorships, the old way was designing it when you edit the episode, baking it in there, selling the current ad slots that you might have going forward based on your current downloads. Meanwhile, your old content is still getting downloaded, but there's still no good way to kind of leverage your whole asset library of what you've created. And so essentially, what Captivate has also done is increase your market value because you're not just selling your future slots that you have for a month at a time or two months and trying to upsell or to hang on to whatever download thread that you can position yourself to warrant some sales.

Speaker 2 (06:13)
You can offer your entire catalog for one or two months, and every piece of content you've ever produced becomes valuable and then also for the next Advertiser that also has the same leverage. It's almost like when Joe Rogan sold this podcast Spotify, all of our podcasts increase in value. Same thing is kind of happening with Captivate here. Everybody that hosts on Captivate, their platform became that much more valuable for an Advertiser because someone could actually buy out all the slots on their entire podcast without ever going back in the past and doing a lot of work to replace.

Speaker 2 (06:45)
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:46)
I mean, the truth is when you are getting new podcast listeners. Right. So if you have a regular listener, I listen to your show in January, February, March, April, when I came to your episodes in May and you did a special ad, let's say something centered around Mother's Day. I wasn't going back to your old archive and listening to all your old stuff. But most podcasters are perpetually in growth mode, and part of that growth mode is attracting people to your new content, hoping they check out your old content.

Speaker 1 (07:15)
And those old downloads can be very valuable to you. But like you said right now, if I did an ad in a January episode that's like new, you change in the new year, time to hit the gym. It is very thematic to the time of the year. So if somebody is discovering your show today, but hearing an episode in January, it's like it's November. Why am I talking about the New Year in the gym? So the fact that you can dynamically insert not just ads. By the way, I just want people to understand it doesn't have to be ads.

Speaker 1 (07:47)
There are people using dynamic insertion for content related insertion as well. It'd be very valuable. But anyway, the fact that you can update that across your library is super powerful. And like you said, a great selling point. So we're approaching at this point where we're getting closer to the Christmas New Year's the winter holidays. And so it would be great if all of your messaging, all of your branding, all of it. Whether I'm listening to episode one or episode 1000, whatever ad I hear is relevant to that time of year.

Speaker 1 (08:18)
So it would be great if you said, Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays. Here's what's going on as opposed to it's almost Mother's Day like it's December 24. It's not almost Mother's Day, so certainly it is great that it can turn all of your dynamic ads dynamic content seasonally. But to your point, also, instead of being able to say, hey, Advertiser, we get 1000 downloads an episode. Not bad, right? And I'm going to sell you on those 1000 downloads of episodes four through six. Instead, you could say, I'm going to sell you all of my monthly downloads right across our entire library.

Speaker 1 (08:58)
We get 25,000 downloads. And so I can sell you all 25,000 of those downloads and give you topical messaging to our audience. So if you're promoting an event, you're selling a service, you're selling a product, and it's the time of year for that product. It's super valuable. And then right. Okay. December is over. January hit a button. Boom. All that messaging now changes to something that is new and topical. Welcome to 2022. Here's our messaging today. So dynamic ad insertion is a very powerful tool, and it doesn't mean that you're letting some marketplace just randomly throw ads into your content.

Speaker 1 (09:40)
It means you can control the seasonality of your messaging. Fact, I have one client right now who is using their podcast to sell a service that they created. This is part of their sales funnel, part of their sales mechanism. And so our plan is to rewrite the ad copy every month to make it more topical and be able to update that really easy. So if somebody comes in and listens to the most recent episode, or if they go back to the archive, they're getting that topical, current seasonal marketing message that we want to give them a couple of thoughts came to my mind.

Speaker 2 (10:20)
This was already happening in Hulu. So Hulu, if you don't pay for the premium version, you get adverts within the content that you're watching, whether it be you're watching Seinfeld or something from one 9000 hundred and 80, it's content that's already been recorded. And they resell the slot that's in there. And it's been happening within the content of the digital delivery systems forever. And we've also experienced the old way of podcasting with, like, a VHS or a DVD where someone is paying for an advert or a promotion or a preview of a movie in those and it's cemented.

Speaker 2 (10:51)
And when you're watching in 2021. And it was a movie that came out in 2009, and that's when you bought the DVD, all of those ads that are in that are useless. And so it's actually like modernizing what the digital world has already done with Hulu and stuff and bringing the podcast. And I was also thinking, imagine being a listener, how magical it would feel like thinking, how did he pull that hattrick off? I'm listening to his very first episode, and he's talking about something. Now this guy is either insanely dedicated to edit his episodes, or he's got some magic in the background that's allowing him to act like Hulu.

Speaker 2 (11:23)
It's the same kind of experience. It's almost like a posturing that happens automatically playing with the big boys in town.

Speaker 1 (11:29)
Well, and not on captivate side yet, although I wouldn't be surprised if they get into this, but on the megaphone platform, you can even choose your dynamic insertion to target geographical locations. So if you have a listener in New York versus La, you could be including either ads that are more relevant to that audience. Right. Like in and out burger. We don't have those on the East Coast, so it doesn't make sense for them to run those ads on East Coast listeners. Conversely, maybe they don't have Duncan a lot of Dunkin Donuts in California, so they don't want to hear those ads over there.

Speaker 1 (12:04)
So it's good for the sponsors. It's good for the podcaster. And yeah, it's good for the listener to get topical relatable messaging. And I'm only excited to see how much more customization is possible. Will we ever get to the point where, like, Google search ads or Facebook ads where it knows that I happen to be checking out click up. And so now all the ads that I see across the Internet are all for click up. Are we going to get to that point? It gets a little annoying when you see the same ad 1000 times.

Speaker 1 (12:37)
And it's like I already bought this product. Like, stop advertising. It's me.

Speaker 2 (12:41)
Keep track of my cookies.

Speaker 1 (12:42)
Yeah, right. Stop tracking my cookies. And also, let's see, will Privacy laws change to restrict that in some ways? But for now, as the content producer again, even if you're not selling this ad space, even if you're just using it for your own marketing message, even if you want to just use it to change your intro. Right. Imagine if the intro to your show was not baked into the audio itself, but every time somebody downloaded it, the intro was just what you wanted that messaging to be.

Speaker 1 (13:14)
Maybe you changed hosts. Maybe you changed themes. Maybe you changed up your format or your music. Now you don't have to go back and reproduce your entire library. You can just change it with a flick of a button.

Speaker 2 (13:29)
There was another use case that popped in my mind as you were talking about business, especially Internet businesses, where they only enroll at a certain time of the year. And so if you're running rolling from, like January to March, is that your open season to enroll in your programs? You're essentially would be able to rewire your podcast for promotion mode, and then once the doors are closed, like, you don't want to be advertising something that people go to the Internet and say, like, oh, man, it's closed.

Speaker 2 (13:52)
I got to wait. Now you can essentially Bake into brought them into something else, or maybe sell ad space for the rest of the year, and then wait until your own ad space time opens up, and even the ability to dynamically tune it to how you generate revenue. And when you generate revenue, it's almost going to be as infinite as these tools, like an iphone ipad where it's just a tool. But so many people use them in so many different ways that Amy is going to be one of those same ones where people learn to do so many different aspects that we used to do and coding in the audio files that now we're going to be able to do dynamically right on the fly.

Speaker 2 (14:26)
It's really a good time to be in podcasting right now, because if you were just getting started, you would essentially have every tool to take over the moon in six months. Because you'd be able to sell your entire list, you'd be able to bring your entire database really quickly. You wouldn't get bogged down with trying to edit all this stuff in the very beginning. And being having sponsored would be a no brainer because it's a no stress situation when you're hosted on Captivator and the other ones that haven't.

Speaker 1 (14:51)
I had a dream a while ago, and I probably shouldn't say this out loud because maybe someone will here want to see you haven't bad news yet. Well, maybe someone who has more resources will steal it. But I envision like what you have right now with network television, right? You watch the Today Show, the morning show, whatever your local station of choice is, and it's national programming, right? You see Stephanopoulos on every single market. But then during the show, they constantly throw to their local affiliates and you get your weather, your traffic, your quick headlines.

Speaker 1 (15:31)
And so imagine if we could do that with a podcast where, yeah, here is the national news stories from NBC. But then in the middle of that break, there is an updated news file that comes from your local NBC affiliate. And so now it really is a true all encompassing news product that would be useful that can only be done through dynamic insertion.

Speaker 2 (15:58)
Npr is probably already working on it because Ms. Mpr would easily be talking the National Public Radio, and then instantly they would go deals. Mpr would easily be talking the National Public Radio, and then instantly they would go zeros from them and then go right back to that programming. I could easily see the money that NPR throws behind their production. I recently heard a stat that for every minute that MPR produces, they spend $11,000 producing that minute of audio with staffing and different stuff in the background.

Speaker 2 (16:22)
And it was like when you think of that type of focus on podcasting. That's essentially what they would be like. The Cats ask for that podcast is being able to send it down locally and get local content more quickly and bringing it back up on a more dynamic level.

Speaker 1 (16:37)
Yeah. I mean, again, if somebody isn't doing it right now, someone's trying to figure it out right now.

Speaker 2 (16:40)
Yeah, I could definitely see that being the front lines. And when we think of targeting right now, it was snowing. It's now stopped outside here in Wisconsin. But even from weather, you don't want to be talking about things that are relevant to Florida when I live up in Wisconsin. And so even from a seasonal base point, even from geography, let alone like a product that's for California, like in an out burger. But there's so many more different things that are and we're really just getting started. It's just getting out.

Speaker 2 (17:04)
And this is only his first wave of three waves of technology aligned towards this dynamic stuff. So it's going to be an interesting time to start a podcast. And if you haven't started a podcast, this is the perfect time to get started, because the tech, the know how the vision, I would say, is as bright as it's ever been in any of the times. It's only getting brighter, and it's getting brighter, faster at a faster pace.

Speaker 1 (17:25)
In the past, there are so many people like his podcast reached his peak. And some days it feels like that. But in other ways, it's like we're in the second or third inning at most of this game.

Speaker 2 (17:37)
And it only feels that way. I've had this multiple times. It only feels that way because we're in the space, like professional speaking, is a space that I'm in. It often feels crowded. But then I go to conferences, and I'm the only one that clarifies himself as a professional speaker. And I'm like a unicorn so often it's just because you feel like you're surrounded by it because you're in it. It feels crowded. And because you hear there's 1.8 million podcast, but then real feels crowded. And because you hear there's 1.8 million podcast, but then Real 1000 that keep getting updated.

Speaker 2 (18:07)
It's not just crowded. It's just your perspective of it because you're the middle of it to other people. It's like listen to one or two. To me.

Speaker 1 (18:14)
It's just hard to break through the noise for a lot of people, but that's true. In every space, we talk about the successful TV shows, the successful movies and successful books. Behind every one of those are thousands of others that were successful. But you might not have ever heard of we're just in such a fragmented society in so many different ways that yeah, you might not become the next Joe Rogan, but that doesn't mean you can't be Uber successful in this space, depending on what it is you want to do.

Speaker 1 (18:43)
And if you can focus on your goals.

Speaker 2 (18:49)
So speaking of goals, let's go into our podcast deep Dive question. This question was brought earlier in the week by an event that I attended, and it came up. And we want to talk about government regulation because this is one that comes up a lot when it comes to a regulated industry or compliance industry, like healthcare, Pharmaceuticals, financial components with financial investors. And it can be one where you think, like, you know what? I'm out. I don't want to do it. It seems too complicated for the SEC.

Speaker 2 (19:15)
They tell you that they have to produce and essentially approve every piece of content that you produce. It just sounds like too much work. What do you say to the person that maybe has a compliance umbrella for their business to launch a podcast and how to navigate that question of onerous?

Speaker 1 (19:33)
It can feel daunting when everything you want to put out has to be vetted and approved before it can go out there. But that's not to say that you can't do it. Many of the clients who I work with are in the financial space. And because of various SEC regulations and whatnot and even just corporate structure and corporate regulations, most of them have compliance officers who have to review their content before it can be published. And that often leads to lots of edits. Later on down the road, things being pulled, things being tweaked, things being rerecorded or sometimes interviews altogether just cannot get aired, which sounds like Matthew, you're not really making the case worse here, right?

Speaker 1 (20:28)
You're not helping. Yeah, it sounds like a lot. But if you can plan it out, if you know what the process is, if you know what you are up against, there's no reason why you can't make it work for you. And by the way, because there are so many regulations because there are so many hurdles to jump over because there are so many people who probably are going to have that feeling that Ben just said that what's the point? If you can do it, you can own the space because you're the only one willing to take the risk, have the guts put in the effort.

Speaker 1 (20:58)
So it's probably even more worth it if you can do it efficiently. So what are a few things that you're going to need to do in order to make that work for you? One is you have to work ahead, right? It's hard to do this if you are scrambling each and every week to get your content out there here, right. If you're supposed to be publishing every Friday and your first recording on a Wednesday night hoping that on Thursday you can get a compliance review, get edited, get produced, get your marketing in order, get it published.

Speaker 1 (21:30)
Oh, and hope that there's no need to be a lot of massive changes or rewrites or rerecords or anything like that. Yeah, it's going to be annoying and stressful and daunting, and you're not going to enjoy it in any way, shape or form. But if you can work ahead, right. If you can plan your content out, four, six, eight weeks. Honestly, if you can get three to four months ahead on your content production, it's easy. Breezy, right. You can record. You can spend one day recording a month to a month and a half worth of material, and then you don't have to worry about recording, right.

Speaker 1 (22:08)
There are some people who every week they stress about who they're going to talk to, or they stress constantly about what they're going to get done for this week. And there are others who pick a day or two a month. They say this is podcast recording afternoon. Get all my interviews done here. They do it. And then they think, Great, I'll be back in a month. And in the meantime, they've got content going out consistently, constantly, effectively. And they're very happy. So in the case of where you say have a compliance officer or some sort of supervisor or regulatory body that has to approve of your work, what would I recommend in this case?

Speaker 1 (22:46)
What I would say is either one. If this is kind of like a monologue scripted content, write the script, submit that for approval. First, there's no point in recording something and editing something and producing something. If right away, your compliance team is going to go. You can't say this. That's just a total waste of everybody's time. So if you have the ability to script your content ahead of time, script it or outline it, send it off. Get it approved. Great. If not, if you're in a situation where you're doing interviews with someone and the interview could be problematic or questionable, then go ahead.

Speaker 1 (23:29)
Do your interview. And before you do anything else to it, get an automated transcript. Right. Get a ten cent a minute transcript or one of those services that will give you AI based transcripts and submit that for compliance review. Because now what you can do is you can find out right off the top if you record in an hour and compliance says these 15 minutes ago to go, great. That is less content that has to be worked on later. Or it means before anybody has to edit and produce it, you can know.

Speaker 1 (24:05)
Okay, these 15 minutes have to go, or we've got to re record this one question. So you kind of want to get all of your production notes, right? All of your comments and everything done together in one shot. So that when you or the people who you have editing and producing this for you, they can do it all in one shot. I will tell you the thing that drives myself and many other producers of any medium, but podcasting specifically, because that's the one I know crazy.

Speaker 1 (24:35)
It's not having to take in all of your notes and make it. It's having to do the job over and over and over again. Multiple rounds of edits are way more taxing than one large round of edit, because a lot of the time spent or a lot of the exhaustion spent when it comes to having to reedit something is closing the project that you're currently working on, saving all those things. Opening the new project that you're working on, Loading up all those files right off, and they're being loaded from a cloud or a secondary server.

Speaker 1 (25:17)
It's that time that is more taxing than the actual time it takes to do the work. And so if we can open a project once know that we're going to do all this work and at one time and then give you something polished, maybe we got to make another tweak or so here or there, but that is going to streamline your workflow much more than if you record, have it edited and produced, then find out from compliance. Oh, all this stuff has to go, because now maybe some of the stuff that has to go messes up the continuity of what you have edited.

Speaker 1 (25:53)
And so now you've got to go back and possibly redo this, undo this unedited this bring this back in, take this out right. Like it becomes a little bit more of a jigsaw puzzle than if you just knew it wasn't going to be there in the first place. So giving yourself ample amount of time knowing where to get that review done in the workflow so that you are minimizing the number of steps it takes to produce that final piece of content is going to be considerable amount of help in making sure that you can do this in a sustainable way.

Speaker 2 (26:30)
I love how I just wound you up and you went that was beautiful on the content of compliance. I want to go to one quick win. What are some of the rewards that make this journey through compliance really worth it that you've seen some clients maybe get on the other side.

Speaker 1 (26:45)
It's tough to say specifically, and I don't always love talking about other people's wins, but I think it goes back to kind of what I said earlier, which is if you can do the work, if you look at these arduous hurdles and challenges and say, I'm willing to take this on, I'm willing to get through it. You will set yourself up as being unique and a leader in your space because you're going to be able to put out content in a place where others are not equipped to don't have the resources, don't know the bandwidth to get in there and do it.

Speaker 1 (27:24)
Talking about health care. I'm sure there are lots of healthcare facilities that would like to be doing more content marketing, but they don't because there are a lot of very important regulations, HIPAA and all these other things. But if you're the one who can do it, well, now, when I go to search for something in the healthcare related field. You're the only one who shows up because you're the only one who is able to put out content on a regular basis.

Speaker 2 (27:54)
You know, reminds me of Tesla and Elon Musk because the technology for anybody to create electric car was there the ability to do was there as well? There was lots of hurdles. But there was one man willing to go through it, and he's been rewarded the benefits because he was the really the first one to create a marketable functional electric car for people to buy in the market. And now everybody's trying to play catch up to them.

Speaker 1 (28:17)
Yeah. I mean, electric cars, the technology has been there for a long, long time. But you're right. One, the market wasn't ready for it. And two, somebody had to jump through those hurdles. Somebody had to push through.

Speaker 2 (28:29)
Someone had to lose a lot of long sleep and at night and get there.

Speaker 1 (28:33)
And somebody had to go through the hurdle and listen. Somebody had to install the Chargers, right. Without the Chargers. Nobody wanted to put up electric vehicles. Now that charges are becoming more commonplace. There is a lot more comfort in the consumer's willingness to get an electric vehicle because they don't have to worry about range anxiety as much. And so if you have the capacity, if you have the bandwidth and you have the patience to forge ahead to lay the path out there for you, you will definitely be the better for it.

Speaker 2 (29:09)
Awesome. Well, today I want to go then drive into a question that comes up quite a bit. But often most businesses that get ready to launch a podcast don't think about where do you say on companies that maybe get lost in trying to create a podcast or figuring out the right podcast related to their brand? And when do you recommend a podcast that entertains their perfect listener or their perfect buyer through their content? And there's lots of different examples. So I'm wondering where you advise and where you can solve clients to go when you think, do I need a podcast about my company, or do I need a podcast for my perfect listener that then just happens to be brought to you by the perfect company?

Speaker 1 (29:47)
It's a good question, and it's not a one size fits. All right. I think we've talked about it on previous episodes of the show where for some brands, for some companies, launching a podcast, having the largest audience Imaginable is not going to be the benefit for them. The relationship and the networking that is created by talking to the right guests is more of a benefit to them than growing the largest audience. But in the case of company podcasts like this, when you're thinking of these Fortune 500 brands, companies that are publicly traded companies that are in the public lexicon of everyday work, of things that we go through in our everyday life, putting out a giant commercial for yourself is probably going to backfire.

Speaker 1 (30:39)
Nobody trips over a podcast, nobody accidentally listens to a podcast and nobody wants to subscribe to a commercial. We just don't, right? We get advertisements, we get marketing messages. We get commercials enough. In our life, we have fought getting those messages in many places of our life. That's why we went from broadcast television to TiVo to streaming services and paying specifically to not have advertisements because we weren't there for the media for the advertising. We were there for the content. Now I respect the fact that content producers have to get paid, and advertising is a great way to do that.

Speaker 1 (31:21)
No problems there. But understand that means that nobody's going to go out of their way to subscribe to your show. If it's just a giant commercial, nobody wants to watch the here's the latest model of our Ford podcast. Okay, maybe a few automotive reporters are going to check that out because it's useful to them, but it's not going to get worldwide popularity and interest from who your target market is. It's just not. So what I would caution companies that are looking to have a large podcast presence, whether it's because they think this is a secondary revenue stream, although in many cases that's not what they're doing or because they just want to reach the biggest audience possible to get their brand in front of people is to produce a podcast that you would want to listen to, regardless of whether your company was attached to it.

Speaker 1 (32:17)
And so a great example of this. So a great example. I think I didn't get a really chance to look at the numbers, so I don't know what kind of downloads they got, but my guess is it was pretty successful because the product itself has a very big underground cultural buzz. Is Ford and the Bronco. Ford did a podcast a year ago called Bring Back Bronco. The Untold Story. And it was a little bit less about here's what a Bronco is. Here are the specs here's where you should buy one.

Speaker 1 (33:05)
Here's what financing looks like here's API. It wasn't that it was really this iconic brand that people loved. People loved, Ford Broncos that went away. And now they are bringing it back. And so to tell the story of this product was way more interesting than to just try and sell us this product. And now the Ford Bronco is back. And from what I understand, people are loving it again. I'm sure Ford Bronco enthusiasts were ecstatic to hear the story about a product that they've known and loved and had an Association with Trader Joe's had a podcast, right?

Speaker 1 (33:51)
That was one where everyone's like, oh, just we need a Trader Joe's podcast. So another one, this is actually much, much older. This goes all the way back to 2015. Ge General Electric put out a podcast. It was a scifi podcast called The Message, and if it had just been a here's what we do at G. Here's all of our products here's, all of our different service lines. But no, it was an interesting cultural phenomenon that had more than a million downloads and was number one on itunes for a time.

Speaker 1 (34:32)
That would never have happened if it was just GE and the Turbine, GE and the fan. Nobody wants to subscribe to a commercial. So if you are looking to use podcasting as a way to create cultural buzz about your product, don't just put out a podcast that is a self serving Advertisement for yourself. Put on a podcast that you would want to listen to because it's interesting and put it out regardless of the fact that your name is attached to it. And then you throw an ad for yourself in there or mention that it's brought to you by.

Speaker 1 (35:08)
Sometimes that softer touch has a bigger impact and a bigger imprint on your listener than if you really try and jam a marketing message down their throat.

Speaker 2 (35:21)
It's almost like where they're getting to see the human side personality of this brand, where it says, just brought to you by GE. It says, wow, this brand just makes dishwashers engines and different things. They actually have this side that actually has this feeling that I feel after listening to it. What an interesting idea and relationship which then can change how you view a company and its relationships. And it's kind of like its personality in general. But I love the whole idea that you talked about because with Bronco one, there was an example that popped my head.

Speaker 2 (35:49)
They essentially remade the Bronco magnetic that they increased the draw and the desire that people had to buy the next Bronco. And had they make the draw and the desire that people had to buy the next Bronco and had they probably would have been good as a market because it is the Bronco. But by increasing the magnetism, people were more attracted and itching to get back into that memory that they had just revisited by listening to the podcast.

Speaker 1 (36:15)
I can't imagine that it cost that much to produce a Ford Bronco history podcast. And we're talking about a product that they probably sold five new Broncos as a result of putting out that content, they more than recouped their investment in creating it. So if you are a big enough brand where you have that massive and listen, the other thing is being a big enough brand like you have massive reach. Typically, you typically have hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people who know what you're doing.

Speaker 1 (36:49)
And so if you put your messaging in the right place, there's no reason why you can't even if people check it out and they don't like it even on that initial check out. If you don't get massive numbers for what it is you're trying to do.

Speaker 2 (37:03)
Well, Matthew, that is all time we have today I loved this episode again because we're going into not the 101, but we're going into the knees and bees of this podcasting world of getting deep into the questions of how do you actually generate a strategy that's going to move the needle and get your podcast podcast off the ground? Thanks you for joining us today. We'll talk again next week.